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Post by johnmak on Nov 2, 2011 12:44:21 GMT -7
This direct action I have spoken to you all about at the GA is picking up strength and support. Occupy helena is helping me organize this, and just today I picked up support from Montana Women For .org (montanawomenfor.org) A date will be determined. The intent of this action is to pressure the Joint Select Committee into a better result regarding the issues we have been talking about. It is hoping to provide "REAL" positive results from our elected representatives. It transcends symbolism. It looks like this action is going to happen. Whether it includes Occupy Missoula or not I don't know. I am happy that I at least got it started. to restore my personal enthusiasm in trying to help bring about a transformation in the collective consciousness that will enable justice and fairness i find today that i need a break from this particular effort. i believe strongly that it is possible to build a new world. i strongly support the Occupy movement itself. it has given me hope. sadly i don't think this local group is the vehicle i want to be on right now. i am going to discontinue the direct action projects i have been working on. if someone else wants to carry on, that's up to them. i don't want to continue right now asking and organizing people to rally, and possibly expose themselves to sacrifice and arrest in conjunction with a group that seems to want to remain directionless, and worse yet, a group that seems adamant on restating its organizational worldview and public message on a minute by minute basis. Anyone interested in taking this over can contact me and I will bring them up to speed with contact info of the other groups and individuals involved. Read more: occupymissoula.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=daw&action=display&thread=130#ixzz1cZrqMujD |
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Post by rebecca on Nov 3, 2011 8:06:59 GMT -7
I like the idea! Would love to hear more ...
Rebecca
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Post by Jim C on Nov 3, 2011 11:16:43 GMT -7
...It looks like this action is going to happen. Whether it includes Occupy Missoula or not I don't know. I am happy that I at least got it started... ...sadly i don't think this local group is the vehicle i want to be on right now. i am going to discontinue the direct action projects i have been working on. if someone else wants to carry on, that's fine with me. i don't want to continue right now asking and organizing people to rally, and possibly expose themselves to sacrifice and arrest in conjunction with a group that seems to want to remain directionless, and worse yet, a group that seems adamant on restating its organizational worldview and public message on a minute by minute basis. (emphasis added)This disturbs me greatly. It smacks of agitation, provocation and/or sour grapes: "Here let me start an action where people might get arrested, but then back out and not carry it out, but I'll show someone else how to do it. Oh, and by the way, you all suck." Knowing that the proposal to do the action on Baucus' office comes from the PDA, (I've got the email), I offer that this is an attempt of the PDA to co-opt the Occupy movement, by provoking it to illegal activities that have not been decided on by the GA. In my opinion, OccupyMissoula is nowhere near the readiness needed to engage in nonviolent civil disobedience resulting in arrests. |
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Post by johnmak on Nov 3, 2011 11:50:15 GMT -7
Actually, I learned only yesterday that the
PDA was also paralleling a planned action regarding Baucus. Until yesterday I didn't even know that a group called PDA existed. I received knowledge of the PDA Organization through some members of Occupy Helena.I take full responsibility for attempting to organize a civil disobedience movement toward the Joint Select Committee. That attempt to organize was an original idea by me, that I attempted to take nationally with the Occupy Movement. This points again to disinformation being spread around on this site and this forum. I don't see anywhere that PDA is attempting to co-opt occupy. By the way, it is not sour grapes, it's my personal dissatisfaction with ineffective organization, suspicion of and by members, and a proclivity to misrepresent. I will continue to be politically active, I am not afraid of being involved with groups that are out there trying to accomplish positive reform. I believe it is essential for disparate groups to act together to fight the terrible situation we find and feel in this country and the world. Maybe someday occupy will discover that they can work in harmony with the 99% and include them in their manifesto. I will participate with nearly any group that wants to pressure the Joint Select Committee into a favorable decision for the 99%, so I will be at Baucus' office with them on Nov 16 John
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Post by Jim C on Nov 3, 2011 12:40:04 GMT -7
This points again to disinformation being spread around on this site and this forum. I don't see anywhere that PDA is attempting to co-opt occupy. What disinformation John? Here's a clip from the email that has been going on between OH and OM that some PDA folks have inserted their agendas into: Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2011 15:45:20 -0500 From: Conor Boylan <conor@pdamerica.org> To: [snip] Subject: Re: FW/FYI: (re Baucus and the Supercommittee) and Occupy Montana movement dialogue about Occupy Missoula's proposal for possible actions at Baucus' offices All, We hope to have actions at as many of Baucus' MT offices as possible in and around Nov 16th (there will be actions at all Supercommittee member offices). We will be at his DC office tomorrow. If you sign up for this we will give some lobby trainings and a letter to give to his staff. *Who can help? *Please email me. Outside visibility actions are also important. We run an inside/outside strategy at PDA! Once we confirm we will add these to an email blast that will go to all 371 PDA members in the Montana letting them know of this. We will also ask for calls and emails to his office. More news on the Supercommittee here: www.pdacommunity.org/[snip] On 11/2/2011 12:03 PM, Francis Kromkowski wrote: Hi, Conor, Andrea and Tim and all at PDA: Here is a little more about the possible actions in Montana at Senator Baucus' offices -- the ones I mentioned in today's PDA conference call on possible PDA vigils at Supercommttee members office across the country on November 16. The possible Montana actions by Occupy groups would dovetail nicely with PDA actions across the country targeting the Supercommittee members. ~ Frank ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: *John Makarowski* [Missoula] Date: Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 6:49 PM Subject: hello Rick To: "occupyhelena@gmail.com <mailto:occupyhelena@gmail.com>" <occupyhelena@gmail.com <mailto:occupyhelena@gmail.com>> hi rick, this is john from occupy missoula. a group of us here are working on an action involving an "occupation" of our elected representatives offices. actually a sit-in, or die-in. possibly place a symbolic tent inside the office.i originally was looking at all 3 of our politicians, which i still want to do, *but now am narrowing it to baucus because of his seat on the joint select committe on the debt*, and the november 23 deadline they are facing. i hope to accomplish this in as many of his state offices as possible. a joint, coordinated action, with a letter to submit talking about our goals, demands, etc. i have been making an attempt to take this nationally. i have sent out emails (yesterday) to the occupy groups in the legislative districts of all 12 of the members on this important committee, asking for participation and organizing on a more comprehensive level. if we could put this together i believe it would gain national attention, and do a great deal in moving our message forward. it would be the first national joint action of the Occupy movement. we would have to anticipate arrests, so we would need people who would be willing to do this. please get with me and let me know what you think about this. we have discussed this already at one of our GA's, and the sense is to move forward on it. you can call me if you want. we can't allow these politicians to push us back one inch further... john |
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Post by Jim C on Nov 3, 2011 12:40:49 GMT -7
My main point JOhn, is that if some people are going to lead OccupyMissoula supporters into arrestable situations, then we need the full agreement of the GA in order to proceed.
In my opinion, OM is not ready to embark on nonviolent civil disobedience of the nature proposed that entails arrests.
Direct Action 101 dicatates: 1) a clear consensus decision; 2) nonviolent CD training; 3) form affinity groups including potential arrestees, and support persons; 4) have a workable plan, including media statements and spokespeople available to carry the message of the action.
So, if in your words, OM is "a group that seems to want to remain directionless," how is it that trying to push the group into a situation that it is unprepared for going to help anything.
MOre sour grapes. We're not even 4 weeks on the ground in Missoula, or 8 weeks in NYC, yet you are ready to criticize a rapidly growing and spreading movement for not having clarity of message. Wow.
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Post by Jim C on Nov 3, 2011 13:05:35 GMT -7
I'm going to add one more note about direct actions and then be done with this.
Max Baucus's office is federal property. Occupying it in a manner that is subject to arrest gets you a federal offense. Organizing people (publicly no less) to commit a federal offense is conspiracy. ANd conspiracies get the attention of federal grand juries.
Believe me I know how nasty that is, having been the target of one in the past for engaging in non violent civil disobedience.
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Post by johnmak on Nov 3, 2011 15:32:22 GMT -7
I'll be done with this here too. I realize that no action can be undertaken without consensus. That is why I brought this up at the thursday ga last week, to gauge if there would be support for it. There was. I intended to bring this up as a proposal for consensus at one of this weeks ga's. I wanted to spend some time organizing it properly first, and some plans were made at the last direct action committee meeting. see minutes. Since then I have been in touch with occupy helena members to gauge and solicit their interest and organizing abilities to make this a success. It was yesterday when I became aware that another group was contemplating pretty much the same type of action, independent of occupy. I am not an agent of that group, i did not know of them until yesterday. (Nov. 2) My intent was to create a meaningful attempt to bring real political influence to bear on some very, very important issues. I also outlined variations of protest that would not put people in danger of arrest. This would have gone to a consensus decision before occupy became involved. As with anything, people can choose to, or choose not to be involved. There may still be occupy members who want to continue organizing a Baucus office protest. I hope they are successful. I did not in any way refer to you personally, or hold you personally responsible for the discord that has arisen within these pages. I don't even know you. I actually very much appreciate the work you have put in to this, as have many others.
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Post by debbyflorence on Nov 3, 2011 17:21:43 GMT -7
I would like to ask if the Poetry section, the "thanks and gratitude "section, the "study groups" section and other parts of this site are promoting discord?
Has the discord happened between more than a few people? I would just like to remind you and anyone reading this, that if 4 or 6 vocal people get in a debate, it does not represent everyone here, everyone posting, everyone who might post in the future, and especially not everyone reading.
Let's try and keep perspective that while there are tensions and frustrations, there is a lot positive going on, but our brains are wired so that we are more likely to notice the negative ( its a survival thing) -- especially if we have been wounded. I am saying this respectfully, and with care.. i understand your frustrations, but i think there are tons of people out there with beautiful , positive, great contributions they are making and will make in the future, they just might not be posting here--- but some of them definitely are and they arent getting much response-- check out some of Brooklyns posts, for one example that comes to my mind.
Its helpful for me to remember that one sour conversation does not a discordant 100-people make. Trust me, i keep wavering too-- i dont blame you at all. I just decided the other day I am going to cheerlead for the positive things that are happening , so hopefully people notice and remember. Like last night, when we briefly sang "The more we get together , together together, the more we get together the happier we'll be" That was a great highlight of Festival of the Dead for me and a reminder of musical unity among the sour notes.
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