Post by kim on Dec 11, 2011 22:46:34 GMT -7
Agenda & Minutes to GA of 12/11/11
~50 people in attendance
KPAX on site (for first half hour)
Agenda
Review of Process. Please speak loudly so everyone can hear.
I. Announcements
II. Working group reports
III. County letter
a. Read aloud
b. Clarifications/questions
c. Discussion/scribe points
IV. Other proposals/discussions
V. Confirm date time place of next assemblies
Minutes
I. Announcements
1. Direct action eviction foreclosure first meeting Sunday noon at the break
2. Occupy Supply warm clothes on order: wool gloves, coats.
II. Working Group Reports
1. Direct Action. Meetings at 4pm Saturday at the Break. Direct Action yesterday at Denny Rehburg’s office. Need more people to join. Outreach opportunities.
2. Finance. Met Friday at 6pm at the break, 3 people. Casey & Charles will take over the Wepay account. John will manage receipts and work to get a list of vendors who are supportive of the cause. Exploring idea of getting a fiscal sponsor. Someone to take over the funding, and take some legal responsibility. Looking into 501c3, non-profit organization type umbrella protections. Next meeting Friday at 6pm at the break. Have $139.70 in the wepay account, $189 at the Good Food store account. A $20 donation received today will go in to the wepay account.
3. Encampment will stay. The population will go up and down. Camp is now a Food Not Bombs Donation site. County may give ticket, arrests not likely but possible. Everyone is welcome to come stay. Support at this point is unknown
4. Communications. Met at encampment yesterday with camp group. Things moving fast right now. Core group have decamped, left for the country where they will be safe. Will likely meet after this meeting to draft a letter to the county commissioners. Where and when that will take place will be determined following discussion.
5. How do we start a direct action working group? POP: Off topic. [Note: The general process to start a working group is to announce your idea for a new working group at the end of Working Group Reports, when the facilitator calls for any other working groups, and pass around a sign up sheet for people, then follow up by setting up an initial meeting for your working group.]
6. Consensus work group meeting every Wednesday 7pm, downstairs at Union Hall. Facilitators using the info learned there to help with process. Will have a proposal in the coming weeks.
III. County Letter (preceded by description of process discussion: stack, speaking turns, active listening & disciplined speaking. Suggestion & request to keep discussion as concerns & discussions, then work into resolutions & proposals once the proposal has been discussed.)
1. Reading of the Letter (Addendum). Emailed to every news organization in Western Montana.
2. Clarification/Questions.
a. The letter asks that we respond by tomorrow, not that we act regarding the encampment.
b. Have there been other communications with the county that are appropriate to answer in answering this letter?
c. With the long-term big picture purpose of OM as a part of OWS, what is our best response to the letter?
3. Discussion/Answers to questions posed
a. What is the “unsanitary conduct”? Vague.
i. Someone kicked over the portapotties at one point
ii. Human waste on the lawn, coming form the homeless population
iii. Condition of how the campers are living without running water or cooking means, dirty pans outside of tent, not like conditions of a military camp or fire camp, etc. Provides line of evidence for unsanitary claim.
Responses: Hot water is there at the camp. Conditions are maintained—however there are “bad apples” that are not really a part of the camp and throw garbage and waste around. Those there often see unsanitary conditions apart from the camp in those living under bad conditions, but those houseless that are a part of the camp are relieved to have the better conditions. The homeless is a problem that the city needs to address, bring the problem for government redress. People at the camp have cleaned up feces, and cleaned up the problem when someone else tipped the porta-potties, and OM has raked leaves, & shoveled snow. The only public bathrooms available downtown after hours are at the Oxford, and the courthouse on weekdays; bathrooms should be available in downtown. Two hours spent cleaning all the garbage out of the courthouse grounds (between the bushes and the building) when we first occupied the courthouse grounds, 6-8 bags of trash taken away by the occupiers. Was very unsanitary when Occupy moved in, made it more safe and sanitary for the people moving in. Language used here is the same language used nationally. Concern was expressed about the long term affect of the encampment on the lawn. What effects does it have? The sprinkler system is 8’ under, every year they re-sod, the repairs happen with or without Occupy. Has a HazMat crew shown up to courthouse? Documentation of before and after occupy? Hazmat crew was here to crew to clean up after porta-potty (when county came in and power-washed the sidewalk), and county is paying for the current porta-potty.
b. What are the complaints they are receiving?
c. Isn’t fielding concerns complaints etc part of their job?
d. In what way are taxpayers having to subsidize the encampment (cops, ambulance, hazmat)
e. What are the $ figures the county thinks this is costing them?
f. What do we believe the consequences will be if we say no?
g. What are the data on the preoccupy vs. post occupy expenses
h. Regardless of who the culprits are, what does that mean?
4. Discussion
From someone who deals with Larry Farns every day, the tents and signs are messy, chaos. Some people have decided to leave and some to stay. Why is that workgroup independent of entire group and why can they stay and we must word the letter per that group. The reason the encampment gets to stay is because we consensed on that at a GA some time ago, we can reconsensus on another proposal if we want to at this GA. POP: we can bring back concerns from a prior meeting and address them. Messaging: The letter and Missoulian article saying “taxpayers are subsidizing the camp” frames it in such a way as to divide, people setting us up as a burden. POI: Occupiers already being subsidized by the government (SSI, Medicaid, etc.). Hobo camps etc cleaned out, have not seen what is being said is being done, camp is cleaned up. An Op-ed is being written that paints the houseless as citizens as well everyone else, and that this is a citizen process not protest. City is neglecting the houseless problem, using the Occupation to paint a picture that the houseless problem is a symptom of the movement when it actually a symptom of bad policy. How to respond to this letter as a group? It was sent to the media, thus response must go to media. Occupy Missoula can write the letter, but cannot remove people from the courthouse. If a working group is asking a question that they are not sure if it should be addressed to the GA, chances are good that yea it should be addressed to the GA. Civil discussion, respond in kind, respectfully. Inform them there are people who will not leave, ask them in the letter, “What are you going to do?” They are admitting they don’t know how to deal with it, therefore admitting their homeless “policy” is out of sight, out of mind; thus making it visible brings it out in the open where people don’t want to see it. Perspective: someone was down on the sidewalk passed out drunk. At least 8 employees of city & county, cops, & ambulance were all there, trying to decided who’s problem he was—resource expenditures for one homeless drunk person are high, so it’s very expensive to NOT solve the problem. The letter is not asking for clarification, it is asking that we move the camp or use the gazebo. Very specific what they are asking, and they are not asking for a dialog. Primary concern is the sanitary conditions. These are the mentally ill and substance abusers who cannot get into the Pov. Volunteer social workers could be invited, or request help from the county to bring in a social agency (invite them to bring in someone, we’ll help. Beyond our abilities to deal with on our own.) Begin painting a picture that the city has issues that it needs to address. We’ll make it very visible until they address it. Social workers can’t just come down and help-POI: Susan Smith with Three Rivers came down before the Occupy, Travis from Pov came down everyday. There are social workers that are there regularly. POP: Relocation and use of gazebo are the demands of the letter. “Reshape the physical presence”: concern that the physical presence needs to continue, more signage on the gazebo as it has good visibility, invite people in. If decamp means the gazebo is only open in daylight hours, will we have to tear it down & put it up every day? Danger of a focus on parts of issues, such as cleanliness of camp and homeless; if we focus on homeless problem we could spend 10 years on that. To meet larger goals need to have a relationship with the city and county. Part of the group should not defy what it will take to maintain those relationships. Do what we can to bring in other people. Perception of “crazy people at the courthouse.” County is not our enemy-enemy is the corporations, supreme court, etc. Demonstrate all over the city, respond to their frustration, debating cleanliness is a subissue. People on courthouse lawn are in a population of high mortality (8-10 homeless lost in past 3 years). They are remaining safer because of the movement. One of those who was with the camp died, never seen in the paper. Strategy: figure out how we will respond to this message. We have all the press contacts in the cc field from the county, we can use those same contacts to respond to the entire press list. Include greater occupy movement, not just focus on local issues. Needs not being met in a micro-level, on a macro-scale, national and international movement. People are speaking out standing on first amendment. Issue they need to address on every level. Address a local issue that on a local level needs to be addressed, and the movement will be here until concerns are met locally and nationally. Bigger problem is that economy and government have both been taken over by money, broken systems, everyone agrees we have a problem. Demand: we ask Americans to start participating. Enacting democracy right here. We can use our response to get more people here. Thought this meeting would put to vote as to if people think we should keep the encampment? Saw a need for the camp earlier on, need for it at the oval, need for info booth, but is there a need for it? Will it be put to vote? POP: Discussion phase now, proposals will come out of this phase. There are people on the commission doing a good job of painting us vs. them, when they are potentially also “us”. Issues are opportunities to go to the media and include community. Non-violent movement for long-term profound systemic change. Violence arises from refusing to communicate before it ever gets to throwing stones. Building change so real shifts occur, not a confrontation of those who happen to be in power now, naming names. Be creative in addressing multiple issues, in an engaging way that allows everyone to participate, not single issue. Five people encamped, 10 times that in this room. Even more people in community. How important is the encampment?
10 MIN BREAK (20 min)
Commissioners gave us the means to address the entire state with our issues. How to do that? Will bring a proposal to address that.
Future options. How to keep those open. Not much time to establish ourselves as a larger group because it got cold, welcoming events were not realized, bring them back, in same place? Keep our methods of communications, so commissioners receive not just complaints but positive comments as well, keep having fun. Occupy is about needs, needs are not being addressed, economies and governments provide those things. Not about a broken government. Structure of government is the problem. There was no golden age, the current government does not work with democracy. Take care on wording: Restoration of government not the issue. Restoration of economy is not the solution. Economy is working as efficiently as it supposed to work. Make sure that the message includes something bigger. Don’t define this movement in terms of government decision making. Slow to make demands is good, because with demands those in power can make minor concessions. Don’t be single-issue, running form fire to fire: strike the camp, get all together, and do something effective with planning. Current government/economy functioning perfectly, concessionary policies reduces us to beggars to the government. Encampment is not a weight on us that we’ll move forward as soon as it is gone. Movements without camps still facing issues. Capitalism today is legalized treason. People have changed the conversation based on this movement. We can’t wait until spring. Need visibility. Spending so much time worrying about the encampment. Letter (response) is key to broadening our audience. We are not getting closer to that right now.
a. Proposal 1:
1a. Submit a courtesy letter, by tomorrow Dec 12, end of business day. We will trust communications to write up a letter to let them know we received their communication, sending our letter to the county only (not all media contacts), with the declaration as an attachment, that tells them that while we have not reached consensus about the encampment, the GA was held and following our democratic process a response in process. The letter will be posted to the OM website. Consensus/yes, with one stand-aside. Major concern expressed: the camp may be gone before this meeting ends, thus concerned that the camp will be gone when we send the letter to 57 media outlets that sends the wrong message, that it takes so long, and asking more effort than less, e.g. public forum. Will stand aside if the hearing is dropped.
1b. Get together and meet to begin drafting a more complete letter (amendments can be made after questions).
b. Questions
i. How soon will we do this? Time sensitive. Can it be ready for Tuesday night GA? Broader response will be addressed at GA.
ii. Affect of occupy physically, include those facts but with limited details in tomorrow’s letter. Send request to occupymissoula@gmail.com to get on list
iii. Will it be clear in the first letter that we have not reached consensus to camp or decamp?
iv. Putting together a letter that will go to the media. Comm group will meet to draft the first letter to go out tomorrow, then start drafting a follow up letter for the Tuesday GA to consider. Initial meeting set up for 10am tomorrow morning at JRPC to design rough draft, send a letter to occupymissoula@gmail.com to receive that draft and add commentary. Process lost, questions overlooked getting caught in discussion.
v. Do we imply we will make the decision at the Tuesday GA?
c. Concerns
vi. Interruption: Message from camp: help for propane & camp pickup things.
vii. Friendly amendment: the intention of letter to stall, or do we need to ask about money or anything. Writing letter by Wednesday seems unlikely because of the speed that consensus is reached.
viii. Trusting comm. group to come up with well worded letter, which responds that we got their letter and and working on response. That is the first part. Second part the more nitty gritty.
ix. Stall tactic not a very good first response. Giving them power.
x. Sending declaration not enough, we say a few more things. Invite community to speak up too. Not enough information or time to respond adequately, ask them to respect rights/process.
xi. How to speak to this when we have not yet looked at the rest of the proposals, some of the concerns stated might be relevant to the current proposals.
xii. Is/can there be an amendment, that in the letter we ask to talk about his in a public forum/bring that up in the letters.
xiii. Community education event, rather than just letters going back and forth.
xiv. What to add?
xv. Relevance of empty park/sending a letter should be broad so that we maintain flexibility if things change. Without hearing ok with proposal. Also cut out 57 media outlets. Need more time. First letter to county only, second to all? Or better to go to all with both, so that our process goes to all. That way not just one person saying what our response is. Link to CT Butler’s book?
xvi. Stalling vs. following process. How we make decisions the most important. Need more time to get there, ok to take time. Agreement more important.
xvii. Proposal does not need discussion of encampment. They can camp there, we can say we support them without physical.
xviii. If not sent to all, is there a problem of transparency of process.
xix. If statement is not the best, at least it’s out there and can’t be spun.
xx. Put it on the website, then it doesn’t have to go out to everyone.
xxi. Length of time to get to decision. Ironing out the process, need to understand the process better.
xxii. Choice to go through the entire process will shape our meetings in future so that decisions that come to the GA are ready for consensus, and are real issues. Discussions not always decisions.
Proposal 2: Ask the city to hold a public forum on the matter. [not discussed/future topic]
Proposal 3: What happens after our decision to encamp or otherwise? We as a group work to create one action per a week and include as many people as possible. [not discussed/future topic]
Proposal 4: In the event that people decide to stay on with the camp, there should be a phone tree in place to mobilize people. We are unlikely to reach consensus regarding encampment, though it is a real issue. Amendment is to get the proposal 1 done, but address the issue of the encampment immediately. [not discussed/future topic]
Another amendment has come out of the original: (friendly amended) Make a statement tomorrow that we can agree on that “we’ve heard your concern, we spent time looking at it in a democratic process. Have not decided how to respond to it. Ask them in that response that they have a public hearing for the community, so we can have a discussion with those that have been complaining. Concern: lots of opinions, but who is going to do the work? Who will camp? Who will support the camp? Question of whether to camp or not the POP: get back on track for the proposal re: the letter decision.
Urging to get to consensus on Proposal 1, and communications will work on a response that is indicative of where we are now. Complex situation whether we as GA determine not to have an encampment. If there are other proposals, of less time sensitive nature, can we please bring them to another meeting because this letter needs to be taken care of. Encampment definite
5. Resolution of Concerns & Issues
IV. Other Proposals & Discussion
V. Confirm date/time/place of next assemblies
- As no time was set for the Tuesday GA, it is assumed that it will take place at 5:30 Tuesday at the library common area.
- Friday noon at the Oval
- Sunday 2pm at the Union Hall, 1pm forum at Union Hall prior to GA.
~50 people in attendance
KPAX on site (for first half hour)
Agenda
Review of Process. Please speak loudly so everyone can hear.
I. Announcements
II. Working group reports
III. County letter
a. Read aloud
b. Clarifications/questions
c. Discussion/scribe points
IV. Other proposals/discussions
V. Confirm date time place of next assemblies
Minutes
I. Announcements
1. Direct action eviction foreclosure first meeting Sunday noon at the break
2. Occupy Supply warm clothes on order: wool gloves, coats.
II. Working Group Reports
1. Direct Action. Meetings at 4pm Saturday at the Break. Direct Action yesterday at Denny Rehburg’s office. Need more people to join. Outreach opportunities.
2. Finance. Met Friday at 6pm at the break, 3 people. Casey & Charles will take over the Wepay account. John will manage receipts and work to get a list of vendors who are supportive of the cause. Exploring idea of getting a fiscal sponsor. Someone to take over the funding, and take some legal responsibility. Looking into 501c3, non-profit organization type umbrella protections. Next meeting Friday at 6pm at the break. Have $139.70 in the wepay account, $189 at the Good Food store account. A $20 donation received today will go in to the wepay account.
3. Encampment will stay. The population will go up and down. Camp is now a Food Not Bombs Donation site. County may give ticket, arrests not likely but possible. Everyone is welcome to come stay. Support at this point is unknown
4. Communications. Met at encampment yesterday with camp group. Things moving fast right now. Core group have decamped, left for the country where they will be safe. Will likely meet after this meeting to draft a letter to the county commissioners. Where and when that will take place will be determined following discussion.
5. How do we start a direct action working group? POP: Off topic. [Note: The general process to start a working group is to announce your idea for a new working group at the end of Working Group Reports, when the facilitator calls for any other working groups, and pass around a sign up sheet for people, then follow up by setting up an initial meeting for your working group.]
6. Consensus work group meeting every Wednesday 7pm, downstairs at Union Hall. Facilitators using the info learned there to help with process. Will have a proposal in the coming weeks.
III. County Letter (preceded by description of process discussion: stack, speaking turns, active listening & disciplined speaking. Suggestion & request to keep discussion as concerns & discussions, then work into resolutions & proposals once the proposal has been discussed.)
1. Reading of the Letter (Addendum). Emailed to every news organization in Western Montana.
2. Clarification/Questions.
a. The letter asks that we respond by tomorrow, not that we act regarding the encampment.
b. Have there been other communications with the county that are appropriate to answer in answering this letter?
c. With the long-term big picture purpose of OM as a part of OWS, what is our best response to the letter?
3. Discussion/Answers to questions posed
a. What is the “unsanitary conduct”? Vague.
i. Someone kicked over the portapotties at one point
ii. Human waste on the lawn, coming form the homeless population
iii. Condition of how the campers are living without running water or cooking means, dirty pans outside of tent, not like conditions of a military camp or fire camp, etc. Provides line of evidence for unsanitary claim.
Responses: Hot water is there at the camp. Conditions are maintained—however there are “bad apples” that are not really a part of the camp and throw garbage and waste around. Those there often see unsanitary conditions apart from the camp in those living under bad conditions, but those houseless that are a part of the camp are relieved to have the better conditions. The homeless is a problem that the city needs to address, bring the problem for government redress. People at the camp have cleaned up feces, and cleaned up the problem when someone else tipped the porta-potties, and OM has raked leaves, & shoveled snow. The only public bathrooms available downtown after hours are at the Oxford, and the courthouse on weekdays; bathrooms should be available in downtown. Two hours spent cleaning all the garbage out of the courthouse grounds (between the bushes and the building) when we first occupied the courthouse grounds, 6-8 bags of trash taken away by the occupiers. Was very unsanitary when Occupy moved in, made it more safe and sanitary for the people moving in. Language used here is the same language used nationally. Concern was expressed about the long term affect of the encampment on the lawn. What effects does it have? The sprinkler system is 8’ under, every year they re-sod, the repairs happen with or without Occupy. Has a HazMat crew shown up to courthouse? Documentation of before and after occupy? Hazmat crew was here to crew to clean up after porta-potty (when county came in and power-washed the sidewalk), and county is paying for the current porta-potty.
b. What are the complaints they are receiving?
c. Isn’t fielding concerns complaints etc part of their job?
d. In what way are taxpayers having to subsidize the encampment (cops, ambulance, hazmat)
e. What are the $ figures the county thinks this is costing them?
f. What do we believe the consequences will be if we say no?
g. What are the data on the preoccupy vs. post occupy expenses
h. Regardless of who the culprits are, what does that mean?
4. Discussion
From someone who deals with Larry Farns every day, the tents and signs are messy, chaos. Some people have decided to leave and some to stay. Why is that workgroup independent of entire group and why can they stay and we must word the letter per that group. The reason the encampment gets to stay is because we consensed on that at a GA some time ago, we can reconsensus on another proposal if we want to at this GA. POP: we can bring back concerns from a prior meeting and address them. Messaging: The letter and Missoulian article saying “taxpayers are subsidizing the camp” frames it in such a way as to divide, people setting us up as a burden. POI: Occupiers already being subsidized by the government (SSI, Medicaid, etc.). Hobo camps etc cleaned out, have not seen what is being said is being done, camp is cleaned up. An Op-ed is being written that paints the houseless as citizens as well everyone else, and that this is a citizen process not protest. City is neglecting the houseless problem, using the Occupation to paint a picture that the houseless problem is a symptom of the movement when it actually a symptom of bad policy. How to respond to this letter as a group? It was sent to the media, thus response must go to media. Occupy Missoula can write the letter, but cannot remove people from the courthouse. If a working group is asking a question that they are not sure if it should be addressed to the GA, chances are good that yea it should be addressed to the GA. Civil discussion, respond in kind, respectfully. Inform them there are people who will not leave, ask them in the letter, “What are you going to do?” They are admitting they don’t know how to deal with it, therefore admitting their homeless “policy” is out of sight, out of mind; thus making it visible brings it out in the open where people don’t want to see it. Perspective: someone was down on the sidewalk passed out drunk. At least 8 employees of city & county, cops, & ambulance were all there, trying to decided who’s problem he was—resource expenditures for one homeless drunk person are high, so it’s very expensive to NOT solve the problem. The letter is not asking for clarification, it is asking that we move the camp or use the gazebo. Very specific what they are asking, and they are not asking for a dialog. Primary concern is the sanitary conditions. These are the mentally ill and substance abusers who cannot get into the Pov. Volunteer social workers could be invited, or request help from the county to bring in a social agency (invite them to bring in someone, we’ll help. Beyond our abilities to deal with on our own.) Begin painting a picture that the city has issues that it needs to address. We’ll make it very visible until they address it. Social workers can’t just come down and help-POI: Susan Smith with Three Rivers came down before the Occupy, Travis from Pov came down everyday. There are social workers that are there regularly. POP: Relocation and use of gazebo are the demands of the letter. “Reshape the physical presence”: concern that the physical presence needs to continue, more signage on the gazebo as it has good visibility, invite people in. If decamp means the gazebo is only open in daylight hours, will we have to tear it down & put it up every day? Danger of a focus on parts of issues, such as cleanliness of camp and homeless; if we focus on homeless problem we could spend 10 years on that. To meet larger goals need to have a relationship with the city and county. Part of the group should not defy what it will take to maintain those relationships. Do what we can to bring in other people. Perception of “crazy people at the courthouse.” County is not our enemy-enemy is the corporations, supreme court, etc. Demonstrate all over the city, respond to their frustration, debating cleanliness is a subissue. People on courthouse lawn are in a population of high mortality (8-10 homeless lost in past 3 years). They are remaining safer because of the movement. One of those who was with the camp died, never seen in the paper. Strategy: figure out how we will respond to this message. We have all the press contacts in the cc field from the county, we can use those same contacts to respond to the entire press list. Include greater occupy movement, not just focus on local issues. Needs not being met in a micro-level, on a macro-scale, national and international movement. People are speaking out standing on first amendment. Issue they need to address on every level. Address a local issue that on a local level needs to be addressed, and the movement will be here until concerns are met locally and nationally. Bigger problem is that economy and government have both been taken over by money, broken systems, everyone agrees we have a problem. Demand: we ask Americans to start participating. Enacting democracy right here. We can use our response to get more people here. Thought this meeting would put to vote as to if people think we should keep the encampment? Saw a need for the camp earlier on, need for it at the oval, need for info booth, but is there a need for it? Will it be put to vote? POP: Discussion phase now, proposals will come out of this phase. There are people on the commission doing a good job of painting us vs. them, when they are potentially also “us”. Issues are opportunities to go to the media and include community. Non-violent movement for long-term profound systemic change. Violence arises from refusing to communicate before it ever gets to throwing stones. Building change so real shifts occur, not a confrontation of those who happen to be in power now, naming names. Be creative in addressing multiple issues, in an engaging way that allows everyone to participate, not single issue. Five people encamped, 10 times that in this room. Even more people in community. How important is the encampment?
10 MIN BREAK (20 min)
Commissioners gave us the means to address the entire state with our issues. How to do that? Will bring a proposal to address that.
Future options. How to keep those open. Not much time to establish ourselves as a larger group because it got cold, welcoming events were not realized, bring them back, in same place? Keep our methods of communications, so commissioners receive not just complaints but positive comments as well, keep having fun. Occupy is about needs, needs are not being addressed, economies and governments provide those things. Not about a broken government. Structure of government is the problem. There was no golden age, the current government does not work with democracy. Take care on wording: Restoration of government not the issue. Restoration of economy is not the solution. Economy is working as efficiently as it supposed to work. Make sure that the message includes something bigger. Don’t define this movement in terms of government decision making. Slow to make demands is good, because with demands those in power can make minor concessions. Don’t be single-issue, running form fire to fire: strike the camp, get all together, and do something effective with planning. Current government/economy functioning perfectly, concessionary policies reduces us to beggars to the government. Encampment is not a weight on us that we’ll move forward as soon as it is gone. Movements without camps still facing issues. Capitalism today is legalized treason. People have changed the conversation based on this movement. We can’t wait until spring. Need visibility. Spending so much time worrying about the encampment. Letter (response) is key to broadening our audience. We are not getting closer to that right now.
a. Proposal 1:
1a. Submit a courtesy letter, by tomorrow Dec 12, end of business day. We will trust communications to write up a letter to let them know we received their communication, sending our letter to the county only (not all media contacts), with the declaration as an attachment, that tells them that while we have not reached consensus about the encampment, the GA was held and following our democratic process a response in process. The letter will be posted to the OM website. Consensus/yes, with one stand-aside. Major concern expressed: the camp may be gone before this meeting ends, thus concerned that the camp will be gone when we send the letter to 57 media outlets that sends the wrong message, that it takes so long, and asking more effort than less, e.g. public forum. Will stand aside if the hearing is dropped.
1b. Get together and meet to begin drafting a more complete letter (amendments can be made after questions).
b. Questions
i. How soon will we do this? Time sensitive. Can it be ready for Tuesday night GA? Broader response will be addressed at GA.
ii. Affect of occupy physically, include those facts but with limited details in tomorrow’s letter. Send request to occupymissoula@gmail.com to get on list
iii. Will it be clear in the first letter that we have not reached consensus to camp or decamp?
iv. Putting together a letter that will go to the media. Comm group will meet to draft the first letter to go out tomorrow, then start drafting a follow up letter for the Tuesday GA to consider. Initial meeting set up for 10am tomorrow morning at JRPC to design rough draft, send a letter to occupymissoula@gmail.com to receive that draft and add commentary. Process lost, questions overlooked getting caught in discussion.
v. Do we imply we will make the decision at the Tuesday GA?
c. Concerns
vi. Interruption: Message from camp: help for propane & camp pickup things.
vii. Friendly amendment: the intention of letter to stall, or do we need to ask about money or anything. Writing letter by Wednesday seems unlikely because of the speed that consensus is reached.
viii. Trusting comm. group to come up with well worded letter, which responds that we got their letter and and working on response. That is the first part. Second part the more nitty gritty.
ix. Stall tactic not a very good first response. Giving them power.
x. Sending declaration not enough, we say a few more things. Invite community to speak up too. Not enough information or time to respond adequately, ask them to respect rights/process.
xi. How to speak to this when we have not yet looked at the rest of the proposals, some of the concerns stated might be relevant to the current proposals.
xii. Is/can there be an amendment, that in the letter we ask to talk about his in a public forum/bring that up in the letters.
xiii. Community education event, rather than just letters going back and forth.
xiv. What to add?
xv. Relevance of empty park/sending a letter should be broad so that we maintain flexibility if things change. Without hearing ok with proposal. Also cut out 57 media outlets. Need more time. First letter to county only, second to all? Or better to go to all with both, so that our process goes to all. That way not just one person saying what our response is. Link to CT Butler’s book?
xvi. Stalling vs. following process. How we make decisions the most important. Need more time to get there, ok to take time. Agreement more important.
xvii. Proposal does not need discussion of encampment. They can camp there, we can say we support them without physical.
xviii. If not sent to all, is there a problem of transparency of process.
xix. If statement is not the best, at least it’s out there and can’t be spun.
xx. Put it on the website, then it doesn’t have to go out to everyone.
xxi. Length of time to get to decision. Ironing out the process, need to understand the process better.
xxii. Choice to go through the entire process will shape our meetings in future so that decisions that come to the GA are ready for consensus, and are real issues. Discussions not always decisions.
Proposal 2: Ask the city to hold a public forum on the matter. [not discussed/future topic]
Proposal 3: What happens after our decision to encamp or otherwise? We as a group work to create one action per a week and include as many people as possible. [not discussed/future topic]
Proposal 4: In the event that people decide to stay on with the camp, there should be a phone tree in place to mobilize people. We are unlikely to reach consensus regarding encampment, though it is a real issue. Amendment is to get the proposal 1 done, but address the issue of the encampment immediately. [not discussed/future topic]
Another amendment has come out of the original: (friendly amended) Make a statement tomorrow that we can agree on that “we’ve heard your concern, we spent time looking at it in a democratic process. Have not decided how to respond to it. Ask them in that response that they have a public hearing for the community, so we can have a discussion with those that have been complaining. Concern: lots of opinions, but who is going to do the work? Who will camp? Who will support the camp? Question of whether to camp or not the POP: get back on track for the proposal re: the letter decision.
Urging to get to consensus on Proposal 1, and communications will work on a response that is indicative of where we are now. Complex situation whether we as GA determine not to have an encampment. If there are other proposals, of less time sensitive nature, can we please bring them to another meeting because this letter needs to be taken care of. Encampment definite
5. Resolution of Concerns & Issues
IV. Other Proposals & Discussion
V. Confirm date/time/place of next assemblies
- As no time was set for the Tuesday GA, it is assumed that it will take place at 5:30 Tuesday at the library common area.
- Friday noon at the Oval
- Sunday 2pm at the Union Hall, 1pm forum at Union Hall prior to GA.