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Post by debbyflorence on Nov 1, 2011 7:38:26 GMT -7
Break it from its shackles!
Sorry to be a pill, but free speech corners kind of are a pet peeve of mine. I think we should be able to have responsible discourse anywhere. If we dont like something that someone says, we can talk to them about it.
I like the idea of this board... but would like if it were called "Soapboxing"
Free Speech Corners are something designed to keep us from protesting in public spaces. It seems ironic for us to use Free Speech Corners within our movement... but I get that we might want a space for ranting, that seems like a good idea.
Oh but PS i wouldnt mind if several people wanted to talk about what to call this here Free Speech Corner forum before admins make a change. I am not so bothered by it that it cant wait until several people make some suggestions....
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Post by johnmak on Nov 1, 2011 8:34:20 GMT -7
soapboxing is fine. i'm only looking at a distinction. personal/collective. they both have an important value. i was actually thinking of a direct link to a soapboxing site from our main page, not in the forum. a showcase of thought, that needs to be made clear it is a personal view, ideology, philosophy, etc., not necessarily the view of Occupy Missoula, whatever that is.
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Post by troutsky on Nov 1, 2011 8:49:01 GMT -7
I agree with this sentiment but as a member of the IWW (industrial Workers of the World) the Free Speech Corner in Missoula (corner of Front and Higgins) has historical significance. Wobblies gathered here in 1908 for the first real free speech fight, standing on a soapbox on that location because it was centrally located and could attract a lot of workers. They talked and organized around the radical union and got arrested in droves, filled the jails.
Anyway, yes there should be soapboxes everywhere and free speech "zones" where people are confined (such as at the University) should be fought against.
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Post by debbyflorence on Nov 1, 2011 9:04:53 GMT -7
I posted this elsewhere but what if we have a forum that is called
Official Words from the General Assembly of Occupy Missoula
So that every other word everywhere else on the sites is known to be open and free public discourse only reflecting the thoughts of its authors?
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Post by debbyflorence on Nov 1, 2011 9:06:58 GMT -7
oh and troutsky i didnt mean the free speech corner downtown, but was more thinking of other places where speech has been relegated to specific areas, like between the mansfield library and the UC on campus... that didnt used to be so, and it was done for various reasons, but i just dont like it. I do appreciate the historical / cultural significance of missoula's free speech corner
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Post by johnmak on Nov 1, 2011 11:11:09 GMT -7
debby - do you feel that it's cool that when people ( the real 99%, the people we are working to reach and wake-up) access our internet site, the first thing they see and hear is a hate - filled, opinionated, fact distorted, obscene, some have termed it "near racist", and "classist" diatribe, that indisputably appeared to whoever saw and heard it, possibly some first time curious visitors, as a message to the world of a consensus arrived at view and declaration of Occupy Missoula? I don't think that's cool. I don't see a parallel to the declaration we spent weeks putting together. Argue all you want about freedom of speech. It is responsible for a group to reach for a direction. I don't like falling into a direction of hate and disinformation. This is becoming an increasingly hostile and suspicious group. The home page is already censored because only administrators can add content. I would hope that they act conscientiously.
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Post by debbyflorence on Nov 1, 2011 17:20:48 GMT -7
debby - do you feel that it's cool that when people ( the real 99%, the people we are working to reach and wake-up) access our internet site, the first thing they see and hear is a hate - filled, opinionated, fact distorted, obscene, some have termed it "near racist", and "classist" diatribe, that indisputably appeared to whoever saw and heard it, possibly some first time curious visitors, as a message to the world of a consensus arrived at view and declaration of Occupy Missoula?
Hi John, of course I dont want to see that. I missed the offensive post yesterday and so did many people because it was taken back down, and it seems like we are all learning a lot from that mistake. I dont know if i share the opinion that the "real 99%" can't handle a place that has clear distinct areas where official stuff is said and clearly states that the rest of the content is personal opinion and public discourse. But of course I dont want any hate filled stuff.
I don't think that's cool. I don't see a parallel to the declaration we spent weeks putting together. Argue all you want about freedom of speech.
The offensive material was taken down and now we are all exploring the issue of free speech and messaging. I am sharing my opinion about that , but i trust that through the collaborative process of the group, some great idea is going to pop out that really addresses it in a satisfying way. We cant please everyone ( meaning i accept i may not be 100% pleased) I am just voicing my opinion in hopes it is taken into consideration as we decide together about this.
It is responsible for a group to reach for a direction. I don't like falling into a direction of hate and disinformation. This is becoming an increasingly hostile and suspicious group. The home page is already censored because only administrators can add content. I would hope that they act conscientiously.
I agree that the group is reaching for direction , and i agree the group is being responsible by having this discussion.
The administrators are practically a random group of people, chosen by their experience with wordpress and their availability to pitch in. More people can become administrators, especially because the administrators really need a lot of help . I will personally do a wordpress teach in to help open this up to more people who want to help. Also, the admins are posting stuff that is emailed in by lots of different people. I hope that people who care about the web communication will form a work group ( or use the Communication Group as a name for it) to deeply discuss the issue and come to a great outcome.
I apologize for coming off too forcefully about this.. i did try to say when I started this thread that i like the idea of a separate forum , and i just wanted to discuss the name , or discuss the topic. I dont have a solution, nor do i have my feet dug in, myself. I just hope we can all arrive at a satisfying resolution together.
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Post by occupymissoula on Nov 1, 2011 19:37:06 GMT -7
The home page is already censored because only administrators can add content. Only admins can post because if everybody were given the acct and password, we would have a major security issue, and the site would fall into hands who would use it to nefarious ends. What you view as censorship, us who admin the site see as a security issue. Also, there is a forum for posting further material on the website here. If you want stuff posted on our other services, put it there. There is an email addresses on the website where people can submit posts. |
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Post by lulz on Nov 1, 2011 22:29:47 GMT -7
What a perfect front. Anonymous.
They could even infiltrate in suits, for most think that they are joining the Anonymous bandwagon; rather than being sent by Anonymous itself.
Wonder why they have occupations across the country.. because it will cause confrontation. It fuels the vicious circle.
Trust none of these "Suits"
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Post by troutsky on Nov 1, 2011 23:40:47 GMT -7
All that aside , I'm going to get up on my soapbox here at the free speech corner. I have noticed a paradox in that some people who feel they are part of the 99% , but still don't have a voice in the government or economy, think the answer is to bring more people in to vote on things. They want to increase their majority!
If the reason your voice isn't being heard is because the democracy is broken, hollowed out, a purely formal exercise, then more people voting won't change that fact. The system of majority rule is either broken or it works. ( if it only works sometimes it is still broken). Do we vote on getting money out of elections? Do we vote on ending corporate personhood?
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Post by debbyflorence on Nov 2, 2011 10:40:43 GMT -7
Hey! Start your own thread for your soapbox then ! This is MINE!  kidding. Look i even used a smilie to indicate tone. |
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Post by troutsky on Nov 3, 2011 11:07:51 GMT -7
oops. my bad.
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Post by freegold on Nov 17, 2011 16:24:53 GMT -7
Please sign our petition supporting everyone's 1st amendment rights Representative Dennis Kucinich (D-OH) has a petition and a message to the mayors of America, please respect everyone's right to peaceably assemble and express our concerns about our governance. Here is what the petition states: PROTECT THE FIRST AMENDMENT I/We stand with Occupy Wall Street and all Americans who wish to defend our disappearing liberties in demanding that the Mayors of America respect the First Amendment and the rights of our citizens to assemble and express themselves. kucinich.us/OWS/index.phpThank you, Rick Gold |
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kidding. Look i even used a smilie to indicate tone.